OHGC members who use Bellsouth or Comcast

[ohgcadmn]

Once again - for the third time this year - Bellsouth is blocking email from OHGC. Once again - for the third time this year - I have spent long periods on the phone (usually on hold) with Bellsouth tech support. I have also sent email to them from my personal Comcast account, got a form letter back, replied, filled out forms online, etc.

I am done doing that. If you have a Bellsouth email address and are not getting email from OHGC then you will have to visit the web site from time to time to see if there is any news. See below for a letter I just sent to Bellsouth.

- Mike

++++++++++++

To Bellsouth email administrators -

I manage the web site - owlhollowgunclub.org - for Owl Hollow Gun Club in Franklin, TN. For the third time this year mail from our club domain to members with Bellsouth addresses is being blocked. Here is the message I get -

Connected to 207.115.11.16 but sender was rejected.
Remote host said: 550-70.85.130.30 blocked by ldap:ou=rblmx,dc=att,dc=net
550 Error - Blocked for abuse. See http://att.net/blocks

I ran several checks of our club domain and email server IP address to see if we are on any public black lists and I can not find any that say we are black listed. See below. We use PHPList email software to send messages to our members. I have it set to send one email every ten seconds (360 msgs per hour and only a small part of our members use Bellsouth) to try to avoid being blocked for sending too many messages or too fast.

We are on a shared server. There is not much I can do about that. But I do know about email because I am a Unix email server administrator. IP address based (instead of domain based) blacklists (and especially poorly maintained ones like your's appears to be AGAIN) are an abomination that only cause problems for someone other than you.

White listing owlhollowgunclub.org would help our club and it's Bellsouth members. Continuing to block us will only hurt our members who use Bellsouth because I do not intend to make any further attempts to get our mail thru to them. If they want mail from Owl Hollow Gun Club they will have to make their own arrangements because I will not.

- Mike Pugh
webmaster and email admin for owlhollowgunclub.org

 Checking Realtime Blackhole Lists
(note none, even Bellsouth's own list, says we are not black listed)
Email Server: 70.85.130.30
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : a2000.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : above.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : abuse.rfc-ignorant.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : affinity.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : argentina.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : bellsouth.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : blackholes.brainerd.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : blackhole.securitysage.com : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : blackholes.uceb.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : blacklist.spambag.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : bl.deadbeef.com : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : bl.spamcop.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : brazil.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : broadwing.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : bulk.rhs.mailpolice.com : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : burst.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : cbl.abuseat.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : charter.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : china.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : cn-kr.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : comcast.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : covad.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : cw.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : cybercon.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : dnsbl.antispam.or.id : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : dnsbl.njabl.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : dnsbl.sorbs.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : dsn.rfc-ignorant.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : eli.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : epoch.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : he.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : hongkong.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : inflow.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : infolink.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : interbusiness.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : internap.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : japan.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : korea.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : korea.services.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : l1.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : l2.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : lauderdale.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : level3.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : list.dsbl.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : malaysia.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : maxim.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : mexico.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : multihop.dsbl.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : nigeria.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : no-more-funn.moensted.dk : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : olm.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : pajo.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : ph.rbl.cluecentral.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : porn.rhs.mailpolice.com : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : psbl.surriel.com : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : query.bondedsender.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : qwest.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : rackspace.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : relays.bl.kundenserver.de : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : relays.nether.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : rogers.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : rr.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : russia.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : satos.rbl.cluecentral.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : sbl.spamhaus.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : singapore.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : spamguard.leadmon.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : spam.wytnij.to : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : taiwan.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : telstra.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : thailand.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : tr.countries.nerd.dk : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : turkey.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : unconfirmed.dsbl.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : unsure.nether.net : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : verio.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : wanadoo-fr.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : whois.rfc-ignorant.org : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : xo.blackholes.us : ok
70.85.130.30 gateway13.websitewelcome.com : yipes.blackholes.us : ok

[gweshead]

Suggestion for those having this issue:  Get a free Gmail email account and have the emails forwarded to you.  This worked for me for another list I was on where Comcast emails got blocked.

Go to www.google.com and click on Gmail.

[ohgcadmn]

Here are some comments I made to some folks via email. I thought they might be of interest to folks in the forum as well.

The post I made in the forum about Bellsouth blocking us was made after I tried to contact a new forum member on Saturday about his login details and was blocked. Sometimes mail from my OHGC address to Bellsouth goes thru OK and sometimes I get blocked. The same thing happens with Comcast. I have been on the phone with Bellsouth and tech support at our web site hosting company. Bellsouth is a BIG JOKE. Because I personally (and OHGC) is not a Bellsouth customer they are not interested in any problem we have sending mail to them. They owe us nothing. We/me are/is a bother to them and they wish we/I would just go away. So be it - I am done talking to them. IDIOTS. They give me the run-around, want me to reboot (IDIOTS), say to resend AFTER I make changes to our email system AND assure them we are no longer sending spam or are no longer on a shared server that sends spam, etc. IDIOTS. Bellsouth has an email address where they want me to send a detailed description of our problem to so they can investigate and take further action. I do that but find they are blocking me on that address too. IDIOTS. IDIOTS. IDIOTS. So I send the problem description to them from my personal GMail account and include ALL DETAILS like our domain name - owlhollowgunclub.org, error codes in bounced msgs, etc. What do I get back from the IDIOTS??? A form letter stating they can not see that MY GMAIL ADDRESS is on their blocked list so they feel there is currently NO PROBLEM. IDIOTS. IDIOTS. IDIOTS.

Tech support at our web host is a bit better but all they can do is make sure the software is configured correctly. It is. Email is being sent from us correctly and within the only published guidelines I can find for the major ISPs. We are using domain keys and SPF verification (technical stuff email servers use to help say we are who we say we are) which should mean email from us should stand a better chance getting thru. If Bellsouth, Comcast or any other ISP refuses our email by sending us a notice saying we are blocked or just silently accepting our email and then deleting it without notifying us or the recipient then I can do nothing else.

To combat spam ISPs like Bellsouth and Comcast are taking a hard stance to protect their customers. Blacklists are one (lazy IMHO) method of blocking spam and they are impossible to implement without causing "collateral damage" to innocent people like OHGC. To make an analogy of blacklists in the real world that might help you to understand our problem - Imagine someone on your street mailing a letter thru the postal service to George Bush calling him an idiot and does this several times a week. There is no return address on these letters. Now lets say Mr Bush gets tired of these letters so he orders some flunky to make them stop. The flunky and the postal service are too lazy to spend time tracing the source of these letters by asking individual postal carriers to be on the look out for letters to Mr Bush as they pick up the mail. Their lazy plan is this - BLOCK ALL MAIL TO MR BUSH FROM EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE ZIP CODE THESE LETTERS HAVE BEEN COMING FROM. There it is - problem solved and Mr Bush never receives another letter calling him an idiot. (at least from that zip code) He also does not receive ANY MAIL AT ALL FROM ANYONE IN THAT ZIP CODE but he does not know that unless somebody tells him or he notices a drop in the amount of fan mail he receives and traces it to the blocked zip code. Now what are the people living in that zip code to do if they want to send a letter to Mr Bush? They are blocked just because they live in the same zip code as the idiot letter sender. When they send a letter to Mr Bush the post office can return it to them saying mail to Mr Bush is blocked from their zip code or they can throw it in the trash and say nothing. People can call the post office to try to get their zip code removed from the black list (yeah - try that sometime) but the post office doesn't care because they are too busy, it's too much trouble and the mail is not for them it is for someone else. If Mr Bush were to call the post office he could ask them to once again allow mail to him from that zip code. Another option would be for Mr Bush and/or the post office to tell people to move to a new zip code if they want to send a fan letter to Mr Bush. Another option is for people to write the letter and then drive to another zip code to mail it. Another option is for everyone in the affected zip code to set up a demonstration/picket line at the post office demanding the postmaster find the person sending the idiot letters and physically move them to another zip code. (oh yeah that's a good idea too) The postmaster does not care about doing that. He is lazy and is still selling stamps even to the idiot letter sender. All of these options place the burden of fixing the sending problem on the innocent senders.

Other options are things like moving the entire OHGC email list to some place like Yahoo or sending email from someone's personal Comcast or Bellsouth email account to OHGC members who use those ISPs. Also note you need to only send a few msgs at a time instead of sending one big batch of email. Okey dokey - go ahead and do that but do it without me because those options will be a huge logistical nightmare to implement.

I hope this gives you some idea of the problem I have been dealing with trying to get email to Bellsouth and Comcast users and why I say again - I am thru trying to trouble shoot a problem that I have no control over.

- Mike